Posts by Cold Steel

23

2016 Revised bethel visitors 'dress code' pamphlet?

by neat blue dog in

does anybody have a digital copy of the revised bethel visitors 'dress code' pamphlet from this year?.

thanks.

.

Who was the founder of Jehovah's Witnesses? JW Org states it was not Russell

by ToesUp in

found this article in the about page on jw org.

i was a born in and was always taught charles taze russell was the founder.

guess i was wrong!

I remember watching Herbert W. Armstrong give his pitches on television. He, like the JWs, was a great believer in publishing. He came to identify himself with the return of the prophet Elijah. And he never took money. He'd hold up a booklet and say, "Now you can't buy this booklet. You don't have enough money to buy this booklet! But I'm going to tell you how you can get a copy of it and you won't have to spend a dime to get it!" But his claims were no greater than Rutherford's, who I believe had more of a right to the Society's founding father status than Russell. Thus, whether it's Armstrong, Russell, Rutherford or David Pack, there has to be some connection to God if one is to establish legitimacy.

28

Who was the founder of Jehovah's Witnesses? JW Org states it was not Russell

by ToesUp in

found this article in the about page on jw org.

i was a born in and was always taught charles taze russell was the founder.

guess i was wrong!

Cold Steel

This is where the entire epic behind its claims begin to crumble. The organization does not claim to be a church; in fact, you can be thrown out of the outfit for even attending a church! Yet it's clear that Jesus organized a church and that he gave keys of authority to his apostles to bind, seal or affix on Earth, and that it would be recognized in Heaven. Or these keys could, conversely, loosen on Heaven or Earth. That meant their ordinations and baptisms would be binding and that when they cut people off for apostasy, that also would be recognized in Heaven.

The church had specific offices. Bishops, priests, elders, teachers, deacons, apostles, prophets and others, yet the WTB&TS -- a publishing firm -- has not bothered to even claim these keys. So how can it cut off, or disfellowship, people if it lacks these keys? Or if it does have them, how did they come by them? Who conveyed them? Who received them? If they aren't relevant, why does the Bible mention them?

How can a manmade organization acquire authority that anciently was conveyed by those who had authority?

If I were a JW, I'd certainly want to know these things, especially if I were going to listen to a Governing Body that claimed to speak by and through the power of the Almighty, I would certainly like to know whereby their authority came. If the organization is the Church of Jesus Christ, for Jesus said that upon this rock he would build his church, then it can't be the work of man. And so far the claims of the Governing Body are anemic at best. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established, and so far the GB has failed to claim even one word from God, or an angel, or from Jesus Christ.

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

Cold Steel

Then it all comes down to belief then, doesn't it?

Death is an established fact. How it came into the world is debatable. I believe intelligence is eternal and that all people and animals have intelligence. It's interesting to note that when Adam fell, God brought the couple garments of animal skins. Scholars have debated where these skins came from and how they came to be, but we have to accept that there are some things we'll never know for sure. And some things will always be a matter of faith.

The topic is why God allows suffering. Christians say the answer is, 1) God will not act in a way that will interfere with man's free agency, and 2) all suffering is temporal and therefore the worst people can inflict is death, which does not end one's existence, but frees the spirit to return unto God. Only in the atheistic universe is death the end of the line. “As in Adam, all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." Regardless of when predation began, every living thing on Earth, every bug, every plant and even Earth itself will eventually be made whole and glorified because of Christ.

15

True God would not seek praise nor worship from us

by elbib in

when asked: “why there is so much of suffering here if god exists?” buddha responded with silence because he knew the following:.

1) even though living in heaven, anyone can live as though he lives in hell and vice versa which means how a person thinks is the key.

experience show that whatever a person does with 100% involvement (totality = beauty), it is like he lives in heaven.

Cold Steel

Giving without expectation is one of the great teachings of Christianity when people deal with one another. My wife is not Christian, and she always keeps track of whether people reciprocate with dinners, or whether thank you notes are received at appropriate times. Over the years she has vastly improved, but I see no worth in such expectations of gratitude, although I think they make societies better. God, however, is a different matter. Throughout the ages, He has reached out to man, either to bless or curse. We begin our relationship to Him as servants, not "slaves" (a disagreeable term I wish the JWs would drop). As we develop and grow we become "sons," a familial term. After that, we become "friends." But our relationship is based on mutual respect and agreements called covenants. We keep our end and He's bound. As provider He can impart blessings or cursings. In every instance in the past, we've been the transgressors (often being identified as whores). There's also the "other guy" in the mix, and we're not given the choice of not taking sides. If we reject God, the Adversary gains power over us and leads us to do abominable things. This brings hunger, poverty, sorrow, disease and war. If we choose God and prove ourselves, we gain knowledge, prosperity, happiness and peace. And one of the greatest of these is knowledge. And because God is our divine parent, He feels completely free to school us in such things as gratitude. There's nothing self-serving about it. But it's His role as parent that causes Him to do it, not a need to be praised by the likes of us. And because He is God, and our Creator, He determines our moral code and what's right and wrong.

15

True God would not seek praise nor worship from us

by elbib in

when asked: “why there is so much of suffering here if god exists?” buddha responded with silence because he knew the following:.

1) even though living in heaven, anyone can live as though he lives in hell and vice versa which means how a person thinks is the key.

experience show that whatever a person does with 100% involvement (totality = beauty), it is like he lives in heaven.

Cold Steel

Elbib» Fall is not a one-time event nor a universal event. It happens with many, and it does not happen with many. Feeling more important than others is the fall and this is the root cause of all problems. If one refuses to feel more important than others, he would remain as firm as a mountain against fall. And refusal to feel more important than others is very much possible "if one wants to" even now.

Fine, but you're approaching a very complex topic very superficially. According to Christian theology, if you're subject to death, you're burdened by the fall (as are we all). So if we're to discuss it, we must first define our terms. I don't feel more important than others, nor do many people I know. We try to use Jesus as our guide, and he, in the view of most Christians, was Yahweh in premortality. Yet he never snubbed anyone. He operated under the saying he gave his followers, namely, that the greatest of all is the servant of all. One of my favorite New Testament stories is the one of Jesus and the woman at the well. It was, as far as we know, the first announcement by Jesus of his identity as the Messiah.

The law given by God to Israel was very detailed and doesn't at all smack of self importance on God's part at all. Because the people had rejected God, even refusing to see him in his glory, and because they returned to the gods of the Egyptians, the law became a curriculum for a more primitive people; however, it directed people to love each other, to care for their animals and the poor. There were no other gods or theologies before or after, East or West, North or South, that were as compassionate, thoughtful or beneficial to the people than the God of Israel. The gods created by men either served men's lusts or greed or they were only distantly associated with their creations. The God of Israel sought to make people better; to make them conscious of the needs of other. It wasn't perfect, because the people weren't perfect, but it shouldn't be underappreciated. It was never based on the self importance of God but on lifting people up, making them more better and ultimately bringing them back into his presence.

28

UFO's might be real.and what does it mean if they are?

by atomant in

for some reason this subject has not received much attention over the years which surprises me.theres many conspiracy theories floating around on the internet and lve done my fair share of due diligence on the matter.the school is still out on this one.l find it very hard to believe humans are the only intelligent beings out there.has anyone on this forum ever seen a ufo or experienced a close encounter?

Cold Steel

My mom and I did back around 1970. We had walked to a place overlooking Washington, D.C., from Virginia and we were just shooting the breeze when these two disk shaped objects went streaking by overhead. They moved with a slight skipping motion. Neither had a blinking light on it and they were going much faster than any conventional aircraft we'd ever seen (and we'd lived near air bases for most of our lives). The way they changed directions was amazing and yet they kept a perfect formation the entire time. I'm not at all convinced they were from another planet, but I'm surprised that if we had that kind of technology back then, why haven't we seen it reflected in our aircraft by now?

Seeing something like that is one thing. Concluding where it came from is quite another.

23

Generation Nonsense in today's WT

by Slidin Fast in

abraham was part of the 9th generation as a descendent of shem.

yet, their lives overlapped by 150 years.

yep, they were of the same generation!

Cold Steel

According to some Hebrew traditions, Shem and Melchizedek were the same person. After the flood, Shem vanishes from the record. We also have no genealogy for Melchizedek, King of Salem, and Melchizedek was more of a title than a name. Clearly, Melchizedek had priesthood authority and he collected tithes and offerings from Abraham. It's unusual that one would just vanish and that the other would pop up in the same generation.

When it comes to overlapping generations, I wonder how do they explain Psalms 90:10
"The days of our years are seventy years; and if by reason of strength they are eighty years, yet is their strength labor and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away."

The generations of man were reduced over time. Ages dropped dramatically after the flood and no reasons are given. Some have suggested that the introduction of ozone into the air after the flood had something to do with it, but it's merely speculation.

15

True God would not seek praise nor worship from us

by elbib in

when asked: “why there is so much of suffering here if god exists?” buddha responded with silence because he knew the following:.

1) even though living in heaven, anyone can live as though he lives in hell and vice versa which means how a person thinks is the key.

experience show that whatever a person does with 100% involvement (totality = beauty), it is like he lives in heaven.

Cold Steel

Buddhism is not Christianity, nor are the ideologies compatible.

I don't believe that God seeks human approbation and praise in the slightest. He first seeks obedience, then trust, then love.

As the prophet Samuel put it, "Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams. For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry." (1 Samuel 15:22-23)

The two great commandments are to love God with all one's heart and to love one's neighbor, or fellow man. In ancient Israel, the people understood God's law and were put under covenant to obey Him. And of course covenants work both ways as they bind both parties in an agreement.

One flaw of the Bible is that it never tells us why God created man. Some have surmised that we are undergoing a test of some sort, but that would imply that, if so, we had a previous existence and understood what would be expected of us. Also, we're never told whether God's ever done this before. Are we the first humans to ever be created? The Pope has called Man's earthly existence an exile, but again that implies we were somewhere before we were here. But if there is a God, we can conclude there's a reason. And it has to be something more than just worship and adoration.

Our existence is based on the fall, the atonement and the resurrection. We must gain something in the resurrection that we couldn't attain before we came here or before our creation. This is theology and can't be determined by a casual reading of the scriptures. The Catholics and most protestants believe that the fall of man, however it occurred, was a tragic mistake that could only be rectified by the Redemption. The Orthodox believe that the fall was a necessary step in man's spiritual evolution. Only through the fall and the atonement can Man become like his Creator and inherit the "Divine Spark" that will result in Man's becoming a being of immeasurable power, glory and perfection. (See The Orthodox Way, by Father Kallistos Ware)

3

Death by stoning better than "natural death"

by stillin in

i mean, a rock in the head!

wow!

ok, so, maybe a few more rocks here and there.

Cold Steel

In my opinion they ought to register the damn things!

(For the children.)